*** Log file opened: 27/05/97 20:52:41 John-CTF [jc.burton@ao085.du.pipex.com] has joined #ukcl UK.GamesNET.net sets mode: +o John-CTF Hi nasties:) :) You are now known as John pRy [paul@p2.ascend2.is2.u-net.net] has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer) CC-Best_o [best_of_bri@al058.du.pipex.com] has joined #ukcl jon, can you thrash me at ooo later, i need punishment? LordStorm [qlls@pc73.max4000.ftech.co.uk] has joined #ukcl FlameTop [flametop@flametop.demon.co.uk] has joined #ukcl me? yep LO erm if ya want Hi Ls need practice..... (me that is) hi all :) Hi Coerj :) lo Jaime off to kill mod:) can we start ? BT are creaming thear pants right now ;) CC-Best_o [best_of_bri@al058.du.pipex.com] has quit IRC (---< UK HARDCORE FOREVER - and ALL LEAVE #quake !! >---) nasty_fraoch asks if this will be chaotic free for all, or moderated, one speaker per clan type discussion CC-Meaty [123@194.82.213.21] has joined #ukcl Lo Dom.. Kalgari [lalal@user4.max36.msn-uk.pipex.com] has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer) back... can i start another flame war and piss more ppl off please....... HES BAAACK!! RUUN! LordStorm says i need the recipe for a great Ghoulash any one help??? somone should draw up a questionare for all clans to fill in to determine the direction of the UKCL forwards? nasty_fraoch suggests 2 zombies, and 20 B&H cheers nasty i nealry got it right to many Scrags it rocks spectating in the window :))) that way we all get a say what we want POWER TO THE PEOPLE except LS, cos he dont count Kalgari [lalal@user1.max36.msn-uk.pipex.com] has joined #ukcl LOL cheers Steak I just want my Matrox Millenium 2 pRy [paul@pry.u-net.com] has joined #ukcl are we gonna start or what? Server has to crash twice before we start around 10:30 :-) ! heh hehehehe cool what normal UKCL rules apply :) ready :-) Kalgari [lalal@user1.max36.msn-uk.pipex.com] has quit IRC (Connection reset by peer) we're still waiting for last weeks quick fire questions to start in the nasty camp heh the men from BT are hammering on my door " pay up or else! " lo LordStorm says guys seen news from the front the FK have dibanded high Nick-Work-no-ghost-here is now known as Nick LordStorm says Muwhahahahahaha i knew they didnt want to play us lol Kalgari [kalgari@user34.max23.msn-uk.pipex.com] has joined #ukcl oh no means Corpus and KOP will fight over the remaining players HEH Dom-Vapou [quake@ao121.du.pipex.com] has joined #ukcl PKTKB dont want em if they aint modemers right now with that new rule nasties will start the bidding at one toffee BoyWonder [robin@194.202.128.172] has joined #ukcl UK.GamesNET.net sets mode: +o BoyWonder lo all Nick sets mode: -o BoyWonder Coerj collapses at meats remark oi!!! Hi Bw the men from BT are through my door and beating the crap out of my dog =) grrr what u mean coerj? rob you can come and look at my screen anyway =) u said u wanted modmers yeah i do Suj, u aint half stirred up a storm with your comments :) do you know what a modem looks like? lol Borg no way dude they are stilll looking for Fragga they cant be at your house, unlees you are fragga Vapour: i try my best thanks... :) Nick changes topic to "UKCL - Question & Answer Hour - 27/05/97 21:00| i love the word *idea*" hehehe pRy pulls out his plackards ok one each Bt are everywhere , bit like god I think its suspicious that fragga and coerj leave uk quake at the same time...... !idea <--- it didnt do anything nick i hate bt :))) except god is a lot cheaper coerj left? When did I leave? :) hehe oops, soz. fa Coerj Jumps OY! God forgives - BT doesn`t Dom-Vapou gets his jacket and leaves John changes topic to "UKCL - Question & Answer Hour - 27/05/97 21:00 - Time to begin..." yea!:) [cough] somone should draw up a questionare for all clans to fill in to determine the direction of the UKCL there's an echo in here! yep yep yep Can you try and keep it orderly and not fire too many questions at once please :)) yep what would you like us to ask? doh I liked the idea of new folk applying to UKCL and get assigned a clan Coerj slaps nasty_fraoch around a bit with a large trout John: is the divisions idea due to time restraints or just fairness reasons ? how many clans have applied for next season? shall we start with the possibility of using Teamplay 2 in division 1 games? new 4x league - Sujoy vs Ettu vs Coej vs EVERYONE ELSE more to the point: how many have puled out? oops Coerj heh john log = on How about deathmatch mode 3 - i think that makes games fairer It's to make the league managable. 20 clans was just too big in one division and we could be up to 40 in season 2 k NOOOO vapo k hehe not funny is the 3 lpb / 2 hpb a fair ratio , does it correspond to the real life ratio on the normal servers outside of matches ? rob ? wait! 40 clans = 800 games to play can we do one point at a time.... borg: i agree, 2:3 would be better Coerj suggests something drastic 2/3 ratio but 3 MODMERS! I think it reflects the people playing UKCL, but not quake in general okay i think you started with 2 divs? boywonder: :) maybe 3/2 in top division and 2/3 in 2nd league ? =) lol bottom division will only have modemers! dom-vapou: nice idea it should reflect quake in general , otherwise peolpe will noit try it nasty_fraoch: incorrect erm can we talk on 1 thing at a time? clans come and clans go depends how big Corpus and KOp can get John set a subject fella LS: we aint that big, a member left today agree Nick changes topic to "UKCL - Question & Answer Hour - 27/05/97 21:00 - to div or not to div?" CC-only 30 left :) Meat:dwon to last 500? One leaves 30 join :)) heh John sets mode: +m K, just peace and quiet for a second, then I'll unmoderate We need some order here, so can I suggesst you message nick if you have a question and he'll filter you thru in some order, otherwise we'll get nowherer John sets mode: -m and msg me slowly i will tell when its filtered k pry first pry shoot well johns alreaddy really answered it :) i didnt notice , sorry Ettu [gvpv22@d-hart.vetpath.gla.ac.uk] has joined #ukcl hi

whats the meaning of life? k none of that crap meaty =) Hi ettu john I think having a modem only league is a good idea, but it be seen as the poor relation to the LPB league Killjoy_ [alansil@p39.ascend4.is2.u-net.net] has joined #ukcl we got 1 itas called mc w hi folks Nick changes topic to "UKCL - Question & Answer Hour - 27/05/97 21:00 - msg your quests to nick and wait in line for the filtering!" UKCL will never be only HPB or LPB, it defeats it'sentire purpose. We need to come to some comprimise... on ratios to make it fair i think open is open.. fragga has proved that you dont need to be a lpb to be the best.... yeah but thats raw talent Yeah, but you need to be the best to beat LPBs you can play on modem and still beat up lpbs, i've seen it done and done it Me 2, but only the worse LPBs Nick: there's no denying that LL peeps have a huge advantage (no matter how good fragga is) Ditto Coerj, but they are the exceptions Yes meat but not 5 lpb's vs 5 modemrs roy =) (shhh you blown my cover) Fragga does get a pretty good ping (how does he do that?) Look at the 4x 4 X is a frag fest though just shoot once and you are likely to hit something yea lpb rules in 4x tho Nick: division 1 - lpb clans , div 2 modem clans , end of season 2 go up and two go down , after a few seasons a truly mixed couple of divisions Guys all of this talk bout fragga and Coerj ot like all LPB as good as Suj and Ettu these guys are robots Meat:wonder how u did it:) 4x is an lpb fragfest - you field modemers and you lose out 4X is a completely different kettle of fish. And at the moment I don't think it's proving too popular... Emily22 [Emily@jenleith.demon.co.uk] has joined #ukcl Emily22 [Emily@jenleith.demon.co.uk] has left #ukcl

division 1 - lpb clans , div 2 modem clans , end of season 2 go up and two go down , after a few seasons a truly mixed couple of divisions MCW should be a league , not a tournament mcw is...? No cos its still lpb/hpw league MCW is not a league? division 2 WONT be high ping clans, not for us atleast was told it is a tournament Borg, splitting the UKCL into a HPB and a LPB once again defeats it's purpose. And not too labour a point, the UKCL is a mixed ping league. The MCW is the HPB only league persactly in MCW everyone plays each other - it's a league after a few seasons it will be mixed according to ability You have to leave things a few seasons for things to even out, no doubt the better clans of div 2 will go up and the bottom clans in div 1 will go down No according to ping Masklin [ewan@jenleith.demon.co.uk] has joined #ukcl hi yeah but there still should be a mixed team That is something the divisions would do But people change so much in clans, div 2 teams could get 3 new lpbs and storm it at least the HPBs have a chance of going up - a reallyu achievable goal The only fair way is a 3/2 or whatever split Nick: Is there going to be another 4 X, if so why, if not why? Vapour: but then they go up to div 1, and get trounced by practiced clans. agree But isn't that part of the game. Of course the LPB ratio would help to even this out agree teams can be mixed , but to start with put the HOPBs in div2 like palace :) Meaty, but is that fair on the other div 2 clans ? I dont think it's possible to be completely fair, but making a ratio is a realistic way of making it more fair i think also all the janet boys/girls going home will help a bit too If they have recruited low pingers then yeah Meat: it aint practiced its lpb clans roy yes =) Yeah, agree with Suj, a ratio is fairest ratio makes sens Did someone say that div 2 would allow lpbs ? agree , ratio seems best Ratio is fair, but not 3LPB you got to encourage people to go in lower "skilled" clans somehow it means clans have to think more about selection aim for more modemers thus getting new blood in some clans actively discourage LPBs div 2's got to allow lbp I still think (call me controversial) it should be 3/2 in modmers favour Coerj: no RefuX [RefuX@dialup-92.publab.ed.ac.uk] has quit IRC (Leaving) yep - aggre with Coerj yeah, i go for 3/2 3/2 in lpb favour Coerj - agreed Theres a Glut of modmers who arent in clans Coerj: yea that would be a far better reflection on the number of players poiibly even, 1 janet/1 isdn/3 modem? it wont make a lot of dif to many clans coerj i tend to agree cept with spg in mind =) i think that when the ratio comes into effect, some of the lpb will spread anyway..only some like hehe well, as i said before, 3/2 in div 2, 2/3 in div 1 ? should equate with normal Quake The way I am looking at it at the moment is splitting the exisitng league into 2 divisions based on your position at the end of season 1 and new clans being thrown in a 3rd and or 4th leaguee, having yet to prove themslevs we will have to ping flood each other =( heeh Nick: you can go hire some modemers - lazy bum :) yea! why should clans with lpbs suffer hehe they are no good for warez its not suffering they have worked hard to get where they are yeah meaty ! its evening it out oh here we go Maybe modem players could use the stooge bot :-0 Meat: give examples... US ffs Getting new members is never easy for anyone , some clans cannot get LPBs at all but i agree with coerj=) we came from nothing when QL, DC and QPD had been going a while how many modemers in CC? we were nothing......... some shite llamas hanging out on quake.demon.co.uk hold on T1-CHoad [nelliott@ai112.du.pipex.com] has joined #ukcl checking mail list well if you are so good then meaty, some modemers playing should'nt make a difference then hey? here here KJ hi guys T1-CHoad is now known as CP-Choad 7 regs new clans are discouraged from playing Quake , not by players but the game itself sometimes i can't believe some ppl.....its for everyone to enjoy, and surely it would be better for ALL to play when a ratio is in effect most newbies start in quake not qw Or even for lpb clans only have it so they can play one lpb to 2 modemers but let em have 3 vs 5.... i reckon 3/2 with a max of 3 lpbs playing per game imagine starting anew and going on *any* server for the first time.... ya get wipped vapou, agree. i really think 3 lpbs is still too high i do anyway :) :) vapour: yeah dead, dead, dead,dead Dom, that's what I've been saying all along. Clan specs of 3LPB's & 2 HPBs if a lpb became a hpw for a few months(eg going home for summer), surely they should still get a game with their clan that wants them when they are a lpb Why not 3 modemers? yeah but when i used to play ettu a lot...it was great fun....should'nt it be like that again? but they look like they want to change it more.... when quake 2 comes out there will be a new rush of newbies theres more of em yeah, still think 2 lpbs and 3 hpbs reflects who plays quake there will be a rush of newbies in September agree - 3 hpbs and it will mean shit hot lpb's can make a dif but not normal ones some clans aren't in ukcl coz of the high number of lpbs meaty: yeah a rush of newbie modemers:) most clans arent in UKCL cos they did not make it i am also concerned at the cut off, the real LPBs are in the <50 category, and to sport 3 of those is lethal Choad: no a rush of newbie lpbs, i cant see you guys turning them away then when they want to join clans! some clans just use UKCL as a training session as they know they have no real chance I think LPB should mean LPB as in 33 ping basts:)) Borg: would you not want divisions then? Coerj: i will up my vid mode then meaty; oh yeah forgot about that:) yeh , but realistic ones should we make a diff between 50 ping and 100 ping then ? Meat:fine if your pings same as mine cya in hell:) I'm writing some software to set an adjustable ping for practising on a LAN under modem ping conditions. This could be adapted to set a minimum ping threshold for all players. Any interest? yes, janet/isdn/modem yeah !!! to be honest i don't mind about LPB's when i got a decent connect nah that aint fair meat - divisions where we all get a chance i know of some players, playing for a certain clan who ups his vid mode so much his pings go down i think there is a big diff between dialup IDSN and hardwired Janet up i mean Let the LPB's have there connects... you will damage a lot of clans if you limit to 2 lpbs but just 2 lpb's to 3 modemrs makes them less effective coz there ain't a huge number of LPB's who i can't give a *little* bit of a hard time wont damage why damage? yeah, we shouldn't punish folk for having good connections tho - wish it was me but if you don't impose a limit, there will only be the lpb teams left! will damge more if you use more than two lpbs the thing is the thing is there are LPB'sa and LPB's Majority is modem based 3/2 to modemers is good aint it? John Another suggestion is divisons based similar to Amercian Football. Ie keep the mix as is it in the current league, but on a smaler scale and more divisions.... a lot of clans, and some here (no offence) dont play well cos there is no teamplay, not just ping i like the US footie idea i've seen it talking Ettu as an example of an LPB is the Extreme meat: yea so??? i think the US thing has something to it thanks meaty CP give us a hard time anyway, even if they are all modem, and CIX beat us =) exactly...someone like ettu or suj can make a big diff but normal LPB's will be ok in 3/2 fight choad: not at all - cos ettu is a good sport and there should be more ppl with that kind of attitude a lot of teams don't get chance to play teamplay because they die before they can do anything It'll keep the spread of clans in the league even, ie no super league, and then you have a division playoff and then a super frag... nothing more annoyinh that die, die, die killjoy: how many LPB's play like ettu? not many methinks i think the US wont work in quake because it will end up with 1 excellent clan in each section, where everyone wants to play half dozen kj choad: not on about "playing" mate bit many play like Ettu " attitude" man none at all really I quote a famous player, you know who you are, "Ettu is a cold hearted bastard" :))) that goes with out saying, I'm talking about playing i never mind playing ettu even if he beats me 50-0 we always have a good laff hey kj im sure you'll get 1 or 2:) i don't mind playing any LPB even tho its a frustrating as hell Nick sets mode: +m think about this one

is it fair for all modem clans to play LPB clans and expect the result to mean anything thank god.... CP-Choad is now known as Bah Nick sets mode: -m =) Bah is now known as Cp-Choad :) Cp-Choad is now known as CP-Choad Maybe we should disregard each teams 3 best scores from the league ? any lpbs want to answer that one ? =) the main thing i have seen playing 'LPB clans' is the teamwork not the ping Borg Cix have shown its possible but with 3/2 modem biased ukcl it would be possible doesn't this come down to whether we want a league of teams playing quake, or a league of players sporting their fastest players to win the league? are we getting to the stage where results mean nothing? i think a 3/2 ruling in favour of lpbs for now is in order AM i LPB:???? Borg, no. Hence th reason for trying to makes things a little more even. The theory is beautifull, the implementation is a nightmare... no, in favour of modemers no ls john - so i can see MPB then??? u class as modemer i reckon LS: how about just B cos isdn arent the nightmare lpb 33 pingers are how the fuck is LS a modemer! LordStorm likes the sound of that HPB isdn are manageable lpb are basts:-) JAime, as I said in my email, this is something we're looking at. Possible makeing the team spec 2 LPB's, 1 MPB and 2 HPB's, with the definitions being LPB's sun 90, MPB's 90 to 150, hpb 150 + isdn on demon can be worse than modem! How about a points system - 5 for t1/t3, 3 for ISDN and 1 for modem. Maximum 15 points for 5 players flame that aint so good idea john i seen spirit with better ping than dibbler like 50 ms at times!!! coerj, it can if demons isdn router are screwed get a decent isp then :) erm... that mean if you dont have an isdn'er you have to play a modemer (just wondering dont bite my head off) :-) john: good idea, but i like dom-vapou's idea too how about the higher your ping, the more each frag you get is worth? I reckon so suj yea I like my idea too :) nick - check message Masklin - good. would encourage a clan to get ISDN players too would'nt it? nah unworkable waiting is out, you could just sport all lpbs and not care about the weights Masklin. Nice idea, but once again, a nightmare to implement. We've gone away from screenshots now so as to save time.....how do you know who is what?? there must be a piece of software that will raise your pings and 1 shot dont tell the story ask the opposition? :) There not many ISDN peeps about u know yeah its easy for some clans to end up with zero scores playing all LPB's Could be done in Quake C its called Windows 95 ;) Yea but dont bugger the lpb's up ROFL