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PADDY LADD  interviews BRIAN and PAT KENNEALLY
of the COSMIC CHARLIES
from EYES OF THE WORLD #32 July 1999

-Brian, when did you first get into the Dead?
Brian: My first exposure to the Dead was about 69-70 when Live Dead came
out. I was visiting a record store and this record was being heavily
plugged. So that was my first ever chance to listen to Dark Star. In those
days they had a favourite album of the week and you could select it for
headphone playing.  The guy running the shop  went on to produce the first
two Dire Straits albums but at the time he was heavily into the West Coast
--  he just put it on, stuck me in front of it and an hour and a half later
I was hooked!

-Where was that?
Brian: The Bishopsgate Boutique in City of London,  around Liverpool Street...

-How long was it, though, before you decided you wanted to play their music?
Brian: As soon as they bought out a song book, in 1973 after the Europe 72
tour.  There was a promotion on the back of an album where you could buy
T-shirts, or a song book and I sent off for the song book.  So did a friend
of mine, and so 72-76 we used to just entertain around private parties and
squats  playing Dead songs. That's how we used to do it. That was just a duo
though.

-That far back! How did it go from there to now--was there a leap forward at
any point?
Brian: Going out there in 89 to see the Dead was my inspiration for starting
up an electric band.  Although I was playing around in a studio the idea of
playing to a receptive audience focused my attention by 89 the scene was
fairly established for Dead cover bands. Having seen some of it in action
out there it spurred me on to start one up here.

-When did you decide that  your son Pat would fit the role of drummer? You
must have started him at an early age?
Brian: As you said he's been surrounded by music all his life and I guess it
must be something that rubbed off on him. The first sign that he was musical
was when he started bashing things in his bedroom and playig around with
keyboards when he was very young. He'd hit everything in sight so when he
was about seven or eight we bought him a junior drum kit from the studio
where we used to rehearse. Around  that time we were paying private parties
and Patrick would turn up with us and whoever was drumming would just let
him sit in by the side and keep a beat going.  I guess the rest is history!

-Pat, how far back do you remember?  We remember you and your little drum
kit from way back
Pat: The first time I remember playing was Chesham with Bob Briers and
Johnny and Andy. I played a couple of times

- Did Brian  push you into it or did you push yourself into it?
Pat: We were sitting down somewhere  at Cambridge Folk Festival and Bob
Briers said why don't you come along. We'd been discussing it so I came
along to Chesham after that and just played

-Do you get weird feedback off people because of this relationship?
Pat: People say  they can see we're close and that we can sort of read each
other.

Brian: Definitely- there's something telepathic that happens. Just sort of
clicks, we both think in the same way.  It stands to reason .  There are some things that are
just unsaid and we just know, we don't have to talk about it.

-Can you think of an example from the gig a few nights ago?  For me there
was something in the Bird Song where it struck me you both knew where you
were going...
Brian: Because Pat listens to a lot of Phish, and because we've analysed a
lot of what Phish do, I guess I'm picking up a lot on where he's coming
from. At any gig there are certain  key bits which , though they're Dead
songs, Pat's probably thinking in terms of Phish, I'm thinking in terms of
Phish, and that's where it takes another direction. Although it's a Dead
song we're thinking about it in a  Phish sense, which seems a bit bizarre
but that's what happens -- how you can turn this song into something that
isn't a Dead song. I've always said the band is something that is 90 per
cent Charlies and   10 per cent GD- we don't try and sound like the Dead - I
think we sound like the Charlies -- although it's their songs we play them
our way. Then again having listened to Jerry play for 28 years it's hard not
to pick up subconsciously on some of the licks that Jerry plays.  I find
myself sometimes playing a solo and  listening to a record of him playing
the same solo.
 

-I thought that during the acoustic thing the other night
how long did it take to get comfortable when you took over the drum seat

Pat: Felt pretty comfortable straight away.

Brian: I don't think there's ever been a time when he was the weak link or
anything like that. The first time he played as a solo drummer was when a
friend of mine who was dying of cancer and we put a Pink Floyd tribute band
together for him, and called it Pink Fraud, and  Pat was the drummer.
because he carried that off so well it was a natural progression for Pat to
take over when the Charlies drummer left. Age hasn't hindered him because
he's picked up experience from very early on.
 

-Brian, are there any  gigs that stand out  for you in particular?
Brian: The one that stands out for me is the one we played at Glastonbury
one year. 94?- we'd done our booked set and a gig was set up outside one of
the caffs out there and we played from about midnight till 6am and covered
every song we ve ever played except Dark Star. That was the one song we
never played-- we did Stephen and The Eleven.  People come up to me now and
say I saw you when I went out at midnight on the way tot he circus field,
and you were still there on or way back at 4am. That sticks in my memory as
the quintessential Charlies gig - a warm summer night in front of hundreds
of people.

-Do you have any favourite Dead shows?
Brian: I always come back to GAMH 75, when they broke out Help>Slip for the
first time-  that is always going to be high on my list of favourite shows
simply because they'd taken time off -- even though they were already on
that jazz road in 73/74 -- they took time off for the new material and
didn't debut it until the album was ready, which I believe is the only time
they've ever done it that way. Normally they'd roadtest the material and
record the album later. I remember taping it off the radio in 75/76 and I
didn't even recognise it as being the same band- it sounded like a
completely different band. But that would be favourite all time Dead show.
 

- Guitars?
Brian: I normally play a Strat or Telecaster, but if someone else is playing  a
Strat or Tele you get into a  tonality thing -- was that you or me?-- which
you have to avoid- so since most of the people I play with have Strats or
Teles I've started to play a Gibson Les Paul because that cuts through like
a knife. A Gibson with big fat Humbuckers on it. I started playing it
through a Fender twin reverb and then realised it was good for certain
sounds but if you need that real hardedged, overdriven sound you won't get
it from a twin reverb, unless you buy  a decent fx processor or decent
pedals. So I've gone onto a Marshall, but the only downside is that the
clean sound isn't as clean as the Fender, sort of a compromise....


BRIAN KENNEALLY -- online interview 1996
London Calling Internet/AOL online chat
Copyright 1996 America Online, Inc.

Online Host: Brian Kenneally, accomplished lead guitar player and founding member of Cosmic Charlies will be joining us live very soon to talk about why they do it, the future of the UK 'Dead Scene' and, of course, The Grateful Dead. Thanks for joining us, Brian, we're all glad you could make it.

Brian: Hi everyone out there (in here?) in Grateful Dead land. Good to be here...

Question: How long have the Cosmic Charlies been going? - I haven't ever seen you!:(
Brian: We started in 1988.. first gig was in 1989. It was a private party for Deadheads!

Question:Geoff,here,from Grateful Dead Forum. How big is the Deadhead scene in the UK?
Brian: How long is a piece of string?! I guess you could fit every English Deadhead in a line in Oxford Street and they'd all wonder why they were there... :) By the way, Geoff... glad to be speaking to you

Question: Hi, I saw you supporting Starship in September '95 in London great show - what was it like being with them?
Brian: It was an absolute buzz, given that the month previous the dreaded news came... It was very interesting to talk to Paul Kantner and Jack Cassady. They had some little anecdotes to share with us about Jerry.

Question: Do you feel pressure to act as a substitute for the GD now, rather than just an alternative?
Brian: The short answer is no... The Cosmic Charlies is 10 per cent Grateful Dead and 90 per cent Cosmic Charlies. The review of the Starship gig from the Record Collector said it all, when they said: "This is not a doppelganger outfit - they let the music do the talking without falling into character."

Online Host: Just to return to the previous answer - would you care to share the anecdotes with us?
Brian: Hmmm.. Suffice to say... the Camels finally got to him... Jack suggested maybe I should do the same, and suffer the same fate if I wanted to fall into the same trap.

Online Host: I take it you don't want to fall in that trap!!
Brian: You take it correctly - very perceptive ;-)

Question: Bri, Why is your group the "only" Dead cover band in London?
Brian: Not just London, mate - UK! Why?... well, it's a rare gift... This is in no way a career move, as the GD has always been the best kept secret outside of the USA.

Question: Tell us about the band, instrumentation-wise. Is it a replica personnel-wise, or do you just play the songs?
Brian: The present band is a 5-piece - we have just one drummer - we have had two in the past, but logistically this is a nightmare given some of the venues we have found ourselves playing in. We have two lead guitarists as opposed to a rhythm and a lead guitarist and we have a keyboard player.

Question: Howdy Brian! Wondering what influences besides GD, have had impact in your musical experience?
Brian: Just recently (last 3 years), Phish has had a large input into my musical style and into English music The music I grew up with were bands like Traffic, Soft Machine, Led Zeppelin and even early Black Sabbath! Perhaps I'm giving away my age here?!

Question: Did you go to the london show in '72? I have a copy of that, it was a badass show!
Brian: I was at the 23rd May show and it just absolutely blew me away... unfortunately I was dating a straight chick at the time who had no idea what the hell was going on. Consequently, when it came to midnight at the end of the second set and the band announced that if the audience didn't mind, they wouldn't mind playing longer, the chick I was with freaked, stuck her heels in and said: "Let's get out of here!"

Question: If you have two leads, do you do a cool Chinacat?
Brian: Yes. We have - depending on the song - two Jerry interpretations to whatever song we are playing.

Question: Tell us about your guitar and amp.
Brian: Right... I should just point out here that the lineup to the Cosmic Charlies does vary depending on where we are gigging. I have a lead guitar player who plays with me when we play northern England - he plays a Strat through a Marshall stack. When I play with him, I play a Telecaster. For the London gigs the other guitar player plays a Telecaster through a Marshall and I will play a Strat, also through a Marshall combo. No-one has Fender Twin Reverbs at the moment.

Question: Brian, who is your favorite Dead member and why? And did he make a large impact on your life at all? Obvious answer...
Brian: The person who actually got me to listen to music - when I say listen, I mean to be able to really hear it like a spoken voice - was Jerry. He made a huge impact on me - he changed my life, how I listen to music.

Question: Did you ever meet Jerry Garcia?
Brian: If I did, I don't remember it... he appeared to me several times in dreams... I always felt the phone would ring one day, but it never did.

Question: Cool, I've seen you with the Charlies a couple times - what's in store for '97? Any major events planned? Any more Dead-ications?
Brian: OK...We're trying to set up with London Calling and music promoters a second anniversary gig with surprise guests. I'm looking to be doing gigs around the Phish gigs this February... We already have Amsterdam and London lined up. Fingers crossed.

Online Host: Which venue will you play in London?
Brian: The Orange, in West Kensington. I spoke with a promoter on Tuesday - the same promoter who got us the Starship support - and he thought it would be an absolute hoot to do it straight after the Shepherds Bush gig.

Question: Any intentions of coming to east coast?
Brian: A friend of mine who was over here this year lives on the West Coast and is interested in getting us out there. We are obviously interested in playing over there as it's you guys who know what us guys are doing... :)

Question: Is there any coverage of the court garbage happenin' in California concerning Jerry's contract with Mountain Girl. If so, how do you feel about it?
Brian: I've heard a lot about this - it seems really sad that everybody is after a bit of the pie. I've even heard a story that a guy is suing Jerry's estate for emotional damage caused by having to talk Jerry down off several bum trips. At the same time I've heard someone is after 50 bucks that Jerry borrowed from him in 1969...! Let's hope he gets it. It's a very sad end - it seems there are a lot of maggots out there. And not too much dignity.

Question: Has Phish become more popular in the UK since the GD demise? They have here in the US.
Brian: No, not here. When you mention Phish, everybody assumes you are talking about the former lead singer of Marillion... Having heard their new album, it is a lot easier on the ear to European tastes, so who knows...?

Question: Jammed with anyone we here in the US might recognize?
Brian: Yeah - we did a European support with Merl Saunders in 1994 culminating in a Milky Way (Melk Weg) gig in Amsterdam where we trod the hallowed boards that the Dead had trod some 13 years previously That was a real buzz.

Question: Do you have a favourite Grateful Dead show?
Brian: I must admit, the great American music hall show gets played a lot . I also think Essen from 1981 is a fine show. Where do you begin? And can you end? There's loads of good stuff out there.

Question: Do you think there'll be another GD gig?
Brian: The commercial pressures must be immense. Talking with other Deadheads, I feel it could be possible to get a lead soloist of any particular instrument to guest with the remaining members and it would still be fun. The idea of getting another guitar player to fill the shoes of JG is too much for any one individual, and it would be a brave man who attempted it!

Question: Have you heard any of Bobby's new band? If so, what do you make of them?
Brian: I've heard nothing, is the short answer. I've heard Mickey's new CD and it is certainly different - which it should be.

Question: I am in a band and was wondering if the boys have any tips on starting out, e.g. whether to be a tribute band or play our own songs?
Brian: Whew...Each individual member of the band writes their own material except me - I'm too lazy - we have never played any original material, 'coz there isn't any common ground on this. If you have a good working relationship then you should concentrate on what you feel to be right. That is not to say the Charlies don't have a good working relationship, it's just the only thing we can agree on - is playing Dead stuff. Personally, I can't see myself playing anything else. My lead guitar solos can take a long while (!) to build and as such I haven't been much use to other bands ;-)

Question: So, what about an album guys? Got a CD in the pipeline?
Brian: There's been plenty of talk about it, though as we are all too lazy and not rich enough, it hasn't happened yet. If there are any rich Deadheads out there that would like to bankroll the Charlies...

Question: Was the response to Jerry's death in the UK anything like it was in the US?
Brian: Bearing in mind there are probably a couple thousand Deadheads in the UK that would have heard about it and been very upset, it would have been much more muted compared to what you must have felt, as the GD were an institution. Even so, my phone never stopped ringing for three or four days and even people who weren't Deadheads were commiserating because they knew what it must have meant. We had a gig on the weekend after Jerry died and, I must say, I felt a complete fraud. Trying to play and mean it, as if I was enjoying myself.

Question: Do you have a Mu-tron?
Brian: No, it's just the way I'm sitting... explain please? What is this Mu-tron thing, please? I live in the dark ages. And in the UK.

Question: I guess the smaller amount of heads in the UK enables more of a tighter 'family' existence to come forth. Does this hold true as a whole in the UK concerning the Dead scene?
Brian: The Dead scene in the UK is localised. We, as a band, go out to the different localised Dead scenes in the country... Depending on where we're playing will determine the size of the audience. Obviously London is a good place to gig as it is so large. Peterborough, on the other hand, isn't. Right - back to the Mu-tron... I have a Boss dynamic filter... I understand Jerry used an envelope shaper.

Online Host: OK, time is running out guys so I'm afraid the next question will be the last.
Brian: Ahh, just getting into this.. Go ahead...

Online Host: OK, to finish off, someone would like to know just exactly why you do this?
Brian: Why? We figured that would be the last question...! And the answer is... because I don't know how to do anything else and it's the best fun I can have with my clothes on. So, that's why.

Online Host: OK I'm afraid that's all we have time for.
Brian: Well, this has been a lot of fun, enjoyed myself a lot. Hopefully we can do it some time again in the future... and see you all at the next Cosmic Charlies gig! Thanks a lot everyone - bye.

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