For this interview decided to talk about each Style Council album with
Paul and see what memories and topics they might trigger.
Cafe Bleu
Which tracks do you rate?
PW: (Studying album cover) 'Paris Match' is good, 'My Ever Changing Moods',
'Headstart', 'Here's On That Got Away', that's a good one.
Do you remember much about making this album?
PW: I don't really, not particularly.
Was It done quickly?
PW: No. The first year we put out four singles and we spent ail that year
making this.
We didn't 'do a tour so it was quite a long time making this album. We were
experimenting really. To be honest I don't remember that much. It's a long
time ago, isn't it?
Do you remember writing any of these songs?
PW: Well, 'Me Ship Came In', I nicked from 'Song For My Father' by Horace
Silver, it's
the same chords. After that can't remember much about recording the album
apart from the fact that it was of a release after all that heavy duty stuff
with The Jam by which I mean lyrically and conceptually. See, it was a transitional
time for me where I was just trying to write a good song, say like 'The
Paris Match', where it wasn't focused on one particular thing whether it
be political'or social or whatever a lot of The Jam things were. In some
ways this was me trying to stretch myself - no that's not right - to experiment
more as a songwriter.
I think it says a lot that your vocals don't appear until the fourth
song.
PW: (Laughing) Fortunately that's true actually because Tracy Thorn sang
'Paris Match'. I didn't play on that as well. I can't remember how people
viewed it at the time. I'm not talking about the press but the audience.
I think the four singles kind of prepared people.
PW: That's right we also put out 'My Ever Changing Moods' but the band version
of it. There were a lot of ideas round that time, a lot of songs. We did
quite a lot of b-sides as well, we did a couple of Ep's before this. I was
doing mood music as well and I can also see why come people saw it as real
cod jazz at the time which it was really in a way. It was more the influence
of Jazz.
Our Favourite Shop
PW: (Looking at the sleeve) Dodgy barnet!
I remember going to Brixton Academy to see you play and there were
loads of geezers
with that cut. Then you walked on stage with a completely different style
and all round me you could hear kids going, 'shit'.
PW: it's a bit like a scally haircut, bit poofy as well but a little bit
scally. (Looking at cover again) All these years later people still ask
me who the Cappuccino kid was. Someone asked me this morning, the photographer's
assistant it was.
I still get asked that. 1 saw him the other day actually. Sends his
regards, anyway, thoughts on the album if you please.
PW: Well this was more focused, it was much more politicised. It was the
climate more than anything else. The miners strike, the whole thing with
Thatcherism, it was just a much more extreme time.
This is pre Red Wedge.
PW: Yeah it was the year before. 1 thought this was the best album we did,
there's some good songs on here. 1 think a lot of the political songs on
this really work. A lot of the time, political songs date quickly. They're
there for that time and that's it but a lot of these stiii really work,
like 'Homebreakers', which is still kind of going on. That song came from
Mick originally. He didn't have the words but he had a kind of melody for
the verse and a chord sequence. This was our best period really, the most
band like anyway. I like nearly all the tracks on this. 'All Gone Away'that
was about ail these littie communities shutting down whether it was the
local Grocer's shop of local industry. People tend to forget how extreme
that time was. 'Come To Milton Keynes'was about all those new towns and
we had loads of complaints saying, "How dare you say we're all junkies
up here, come up and have a look at our fine town.
They had plastic cows in the fields.
PW: Yeah that says it all for me. 'Stand Up Comids Instructions' that was
Lenny Henry. I like the words to it but I remember Lenny cutting one line
because it had a fuck in it. He said, "I can't say that'. Lightweight!
'Man Of Great Promise', is great song, I do like that. That was about Dave
Waller (ex Jam member and friend of Paul's who committed suicide) and 'Down
In The Seine' I really like that. I had a real French obsession. It was
that Mod chic thing. Before the Council I read "Absolute Beginners'
and that made such a big impact. You could really see where the whole Mod
thing came from in that book even though it was published in 1958. Just
the whole thing about European style whether it was films of dress or scooters.
That's a good song, 'Down In The Seine' I met this girl at that Globe Theatre
gig we did and she said that song saved her life.
How do you feel when people say that?
PW: it's such a personal thing for them so it's hard to comment on it. (Pauses)
It's a weird thing to say but it makes you feel good about it really, that
a song is that powerful. (Looks at cover again) Whitey wrote the words to
'With Everything To Lose' and that also became 'Have You Ever Had It Blue'
which is in that fucking awful film. 'Walls Come Tumbling Down', I'm still
having that, it probably sounds a bit dated but 'You don't have to take
this crap', is the first line and you don't hear many pop songs starting
off like these days.
Home And Abroad
The, Style Council were never really known as a live band.
PW: Yeah but I was always more intimidated over here. We did some good gigs
abroad. In Europe it was fucking great. All we needed was to be on-stage
and get something back from the audience which always boosts you. But in
England it was always intimidating. It wasn't just a few wankers shouting
out for 'Going Underground', because you're always going to get that. It
was more up here for me (taps head) in my own mind, that was what was intimidating.
I remember a gig at the Dominion Theatre.
PW: We split the show in half. We went on first and then we had The Questions
and then we came back for the second half.
I remember you saying to the crowd, "is it you or is it me? What's
going on here?
PW: Not much though. Me playing guitar was synonymous with me singing when
it was The Jam. It was a total thing, joined at the hip. But it wasn't with
The Council which was of my own choosing. My bottle went a bit as well.
I didn't want to play in that style anymore. I wanted to find something
else. Since I picked the guitar up in recent years I've discovered that
the aggressive thing is instinctive part of my playing style. So I needed
The Style Council to get where I am now.
The Cost Of loving
The infamous orange covered one.
PW: Me and Chalfy (Paul's sleeve designer) were talking about that last
night and he
was saying, how up front a lot of it was. All the adverts. Putting all the
titles in there, foreign languages and writing our own reviews saying,'"it's
shit!" You'd never get away with that now, the record company wouldn't
let you do it now, they'd say it was a bad career Move, which it was. Chalfy
reminded me of that two page advert in NME and all it was just orange.
The first song is It Didn't Matter'.
PW: We nicked that from 'Night After Night' by David Sea, nicked the bass
line.
Do you like any of these songs, 'Right To Go'.
PW: No that's fucking awful. 'Heavens Above', is alright. 'A womans Song',
is good on
that, 'Cast Of Loving' is good, 'Waiting' is a good tune. That didn't do
anything as a single I was surprised by that.
First single of your not to reach top forty.
PW: is that right? It's a good tune that. Someone should do a cover of that.
Great chords in it. It was the wrong time really. People were confused by
that time and I think we just added to the confusion.
Also the album hasn't got as many musical styles as the others.
PW: The idea was that the album would be based on the modern soul, the indie
soul stuff. That was pretty obscure and it wasn't what people were expecting.
It was badly recorded as well. I don't think there was enough love in that
record to make it come through, to make it strong. I don't think my heart
was in it because there were other things going on in my life at the time
which took me away. I started going out with Dee at the time an all I wanted
to do was go off and be in love and have fun and it's not the best time
to make a record really. Also I think we were out of step with our audience
or they were out of step with us, whatever way it works. The more you get
out of step the more you get on a defensive thing and then you feel trapped
and insular.
I think that comes through on the next album.
Confessions' Of A Pop-Group
PW: I suppose so but having said that the album's got far more styles. Let's
play some
of it. (Plays 'the Story Of Someone Shoe' and 'the Little Bay In the Castle')
I like all that side. It was a conceptual thing that incorporated some classical
things in it, I don't care how pretentious it is. I was listening to Debussy,
there's even a quote. You know, 'Clair De Lune' there's a quote from that
on the flute. 'Story Of Someones Shoe' was supposed to be like that MJQ
album with the Swingle Singers, 'Place De Vendome', so that was the influence.
I really like the contrast on that song between the cheery singing
and the gritty lyrics.
PW: It's a good album. Again, it's always easy to say it was bad timing
because sometimes you put things out and they click and sometimes they don't.
The album sounds totally unconcerned with gaining an audience.
PW: I do know what you mean and you can never tell because sometimes you
want something fresh and challenging. I've never been to concerned with
what my audience wants and the album is indulgent but at the same time there's
some good tunes on this. I like Mick's thing, 'The Little Boy In The Castle'
and 'Why I went Missing' is a good tune.
The lyrics to 'Life At A Top Peoples Health Farm' are good but the
song is buried.
PW: Well it wasn't much of a song anyway. But the words are good. It's meant
to be like a cockney song, (sings) "Dad's gone down the racetrack,
Mother's playing bingo" it was a cockney thing but turned out into.
a 1980's Thatcher style. I also like 'Confessions Of A Pop Group', which
we nicked from Osiris track, 'War On Bullshit'. I don't know maybe it was
too up its own arse but there's some clever stuff on there.
Was it intense making the album?
PW: No it was quite enjoyable as I remember it because all the songs were
there and when you've got all the songs in place it's always much easier
and much more enjoyable. Say like with, 'The Cost Of Loving', 1 was writing
and making it up as I went along which is always more labourious. But this
one I was more focused on, I knew what 1 wanted.
The reviews for this were probably the most vitriolic.
PW: Yes, slated but then what's new I can't think of any Council album that
got good reviews since the last Jam album. It's a long time, 'isn't it.
Modernism: A New Decade
PW: I was playing that this morning.
And what did you think?
PW: Yeah some of its alright.
I'm having three songs from this album. 'That Spiritual Feeling',
'Love Of The World' and 'Sure Is Sure'.
PW: There's something else I like., I liked 'World Must Come Together' and
'High On Hope'. Again it sounds dated yet that style of music is still going
on. It hasn't changed in ten years as far as I'm concerned.
I was talking to George at Polydor and he had never heard the album
and was saying how far ahead of its time it was.
PW. In a way it was. At the time that music was still underground it hadn't
crossed over to the charts. I really liked the positive thing in that music
and the way it was more like a old school gospel. That's how I heard it
anyway.
You also linked the scene to Mod.
PW: You had all this next generation which if they're not mods it's the
whole Mod ethic. And that's creating your own scene, getting your own clubs,
getting your won music which only you know about. It's the same connection.
It's the same as people in the '60's going out buying obscure R&S blues
records or people in the '70's buying funk tunes, it's a whole family tree
and that was the connection for me. I remember seeing that shop in King's
Road where people would buy their Kickers and stuff and there was a huge
queue outside the shop. It was large but still underground and I'm always
fascinated by that because it is so unique to England, all that sub culture
thing, all that tribalism. It is unique to England. 1 don't know any other
country that has got it in the same way, the same devotion to it.
And around this time came the Royal Albert Hall Show
PW: I thought it was alright from the dance routines which we could have
done without because they were filth. Acid surf Mods, that was the whole
concept.
It was also probably the first time House music was played live in
this country.
PW: Yeah it was and we had people like Bryan Powell and Omar, a lot of talented
people in there. It was more like a complete show because everyone did a
bit, everyone had a song. But people ripped up their programs, calling me
Judas at the Albert Hall! It was outrageous. I saw these geezers about two
weeks afterwards and they were saying, 'What the fuck was that all about'?
Well, it was what it was. See, it's not true to say that The Council was
a total wash out because we had loads of fans and it was the first time
I crossed over to other countries, especially Europe.
Paolo Hewitt - May 21 1998